Ivan kanev on How to Negotiate with Yourself (and win) in your career and life


Ivan Kanev shows you how to tackle these questions

Ever told yourself that you're not good enough?

Scared to change jobs despite wanting to explore new opportunities?

Or simply daunted by the prospect of breaking out of your comfort zone?

How to negotiate with yourself and  WIN.


Jawad: Hi, Welcome to thinking backwards. This is your host Jawad. This podcast is here to help you tap into your inner creative  and get you to ship your best work. We would interview guests have succeeded and failed.

We would learn from them. And how they got their dream job. How did they get the raise they were looking for? How did they start their side hustle?

But more importantly, how did they take the leap?

To push.

The start button.

today we have a special guest, Yvonne. Who has been a longtime mentor for me throughout all my startups. And he's here today to tell us a bit. About himself and maybe a bit of how he helped me. Hi, Yvonne.

Ivan: Good to chat with you.

Jawad: Thank you for coming on.

Ivan: Absolutely. That's exciting.

Jawad: You had an amazing career. And you took a lot of paths. Going from an investment banker. To creating a startup with hardware tech for bees. To a product manager in supply chain with Walmart. How did you take all those transitions managed to learn what the new jobs contained and adapt yourself to what is required

Ivan: so learning and adapting is incredibly valuable.  I'm very fortunate that For example, when I was joining Walmart, my manager at the time, he had the faith in me and he gave me a chance, even though I did not have the the strict supply chain expertise, but I have the protest parties, I know how to do products, but he took a chance on me  and it really worked out great.

you need a little bit of luck, but what you need is also, and I think that's, that will be universal for starting anything you need a set of rules that you did. You go by that kind of make you as a person. A better individual in terms of being better prepared

and if you follow a simple procedure and you have those principles embedded  into your core coracle then you really wouldn't matter if you're going from finance to a startup or to a corporate job or from a corporate job to something else. change will always be there.

As long as you have the tools to meet the challenge, you would be fine.

Jawad: Yeah. Because maybe someone's listening to us and they are an accountant, for example, or. in sales and they would love to switch to marketing, , in another company, but they don't know how to get in.

They don't have any previous experience. How would you suggest that they go about this?

Ivan: So I can tell you what kind of my. Guiding principles are for anything. and see if that helps people. So for me, everything starts with a good night's sleep and a good breakfast. that's fundamental.

Joanne. Yeah.

And he's actually goes deeper  than just, having a nice meal. So sleeping is so important for us. People have this mentality that if you work all the time and entrepreneurs don't sleep and people like, and that can last for a while, but.

Sleeping is way more fundamental for you than you think. regardless of what time you go to bed, you need to make sure that you wake up consistently in the morning, around the same time and getting a good night's sleep, really  prepares you as a person, not only physically to meet the new challenges of the day and why breakfast is so important.

Breakfast is basically the main tool that you have to regulate the chemicals that your body produces. So there are two hormones that are important for this conversation. Serotonin. And dopamine serotonin. And on top of me, and basically the balance of those two is where breakfast comes in.

here's how you can think about those. You want to have high levels of. Lola was on top of it. So the balance needs to be in the favor of third, right? Because what this means, when you're high on serotonin, when the serotonin juices are flowing through your system, you automatically feel more confident.

You feel more empowered, you feel more emboldened, you feel more prepared, you feel better. Doesn't it. not really. You're thinking about dopamine, maybe it's a different thing. Serotonin is is the one that, that, that makes stand up in a crowd. It's really what regulates how you are.

And then the other one. So whenever you see people, standing straight their shoulders back, that's where you recognize serotonin on the other side, if you're slumming down and your shoulders are drooping in you in your kind of. Feeling not depressed, but you're feeling not great about it.

That's where dopamine kicks in and you want to boost that serotonin level. You want that initial kick. That's why your breakfast is important because I love food. And for the longest while there was nothing better than a fresh croissant in the morning. Yeah. I remember the

Jawad: morning routines.

Ivan: Yeah. But then you should look at this does do right. Simple carbohydrates sugars, right? You should avoid that.  What you should do. If you want to set up yourself for success, as much as possible every single day is get a good night's sleep. And then you have a protein, rich and fat, rich breakfast.

Every single morning, because this unlike the simple carbohydrates or the sugars, they give you an immediate-release followed by an immediate dip. So you would feel after breakfast an hour afterwards, you will not have the confidence level to keep on meeting challenges. Whereas we'd have fatty breakfast with a lot of protein and a lot of fats, your serotonin goes up.

So now you can fix your posture. You can. Stand up Dole to meet the challenges of the date. And that might sound a little bit far off for people, but then you start, then you peel the next layer of the onion. All right. Now we figured out we need sleep. We need breakfast. And we needed for those particular hormones to be where we want them to be.

But the question is why,

Jawad: right? Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna ask. So you're saying all of those things, which is fascinating. And you are saying it in the sense of how it's such an important part of you achieving what you want in your career or new business?

Ivan: here's the why going back to more than 400 million years of evolution on of life, on nerds, right? simple organisms and then crustaceans and then a, and I'll do lizards, mammals, everything. So all of those, and then humans, all of those organisms needed a way to figure out where they belong in the world. if you dig deep underneath all your brain activity, all your thoughts and all your feelings right underneath there, this is an ancient tool, which evolution gave us to figure out who is where in the social spectrum, in the social hierarchy.

So that's why you, when you see animals, right? Yeah. Think about, let's think about lions for a second. You'll see the, you'll see the alpha male is strong. He's big. he's, he's a main is big and hairy. Like the other lions, they see the alpha male and they immediately know, Oh, this is the boss.

We're not screwing around with him. We're not going to mess with him. So this ancient tool when you look at somebody else, you're subconscious is immediately placing them, social hierarchy somewhere, basically, social status validation tool.

This is what your brain does, It measures. absolutely subconsciously. so you're measuring everyone and you're deciding where, what social rank to subscribe to them,  usually the way it works is  if you see somebody who feels droopy, who feels like Dyer, who looks like they don't care what the energy your brain priming them a lower social status.

Wow. And when you see somebody, which is who's confident who is ready to, to, to take a step forward with who is emboldened your brain automatically ascribes them a higher social status. so once you start, preparing yourself, people will. Subconsciously judge you just to hear above where they just do yesterday.

And once you're on a positive path, it's  kind of a feedback loop, right? positive reinforcement leads to positive feedback and leads to positive results, which lead to more positive actions, which leads to more positive feedback. So good things happen. The better prepared you are to meet them.

And on the other side, you go down paths of nothing going your way, nothing working the way you want it to be even going down depression lane. Yeah. if you go to that so that's why breakfast is important because you want to have your chances in the world. You need To be prepared for people to judge you at the higher social level.

Jawad: Wow. This is really fascinating. I did not really expect an answer like that. That's all

I'm convinced I'm on board. I see it.

Ivan: but that's just the easy part because Then, yeah. So this is what you can do pretty much with minimal effort.

you can get a good night's sleep and you can get, and you can get proper breakfast. that's the one thing that doesn't require any effort, but then how do you actually start doing things? And if anyone is a little bit like me, I like to procrastinate things.  It's very difficult for me to start doing things.

It's not something that comes naturally. And  always the toughest part for me has always been negotiating with myself. I'm a very tough negotiator. and the thing is people, have this perception that we are in the same way. At the same time, our own master and our own slave, meaning that we can decide what we want to do.

We can be the master of who we are, how we do things, but at the same time somebody needs to execute. So we're in the same time. We're also the slave who does what the what we think we should do. And that's where things start to, to go down. Because you've cheated yourself subconsciously more times than you are willing to admit.

Now it's very difficult for you to do things. It's very difficult for it to get out of the couch and really start something new, which would require efforts because you've already been burned. what do you need for me? Your subconscious self is telling you why should I do what you're telling me to do?

And this is where negotiating with yourself really starts. And you need to be honest about it. So for me, I hit a period in my life where I really needed to. To get myself jump-started on something because I was going into a slump. So that's on you start baby steps today. You can negotiate with yourself that you do the dishes.

or you would send one email or you will prepare your resume. Like you would spend one hour working on your resume. That can be the deal that you make with yourself. If you're an accountant and you want to go to marketing, or if you're in sales and you want to do that, or whatever you want to do first, that is first step is negotiate with yourself.

Make sure that you. Give yourself a very specific set of requirements. I want to work on my resume until I get XYZ result. and then once you inform yourself,  what's required. Then you also tell yourself, and this can sound stupid, but if you need to do it out loud and do it out loud, Promise yourself a reward like dinner. Hey, if I send an email to our recruiter, or if I reach out to someone in my network asking for an opportunity, like whatever the task is, If I do that, my reward would be X. Like I will go out and I would buy myself a cup of coffee. Like I would sit in the sun and drink an espresso and make sure.

This is the critical part. Make sure  you honored that, make sure that after you're done with the task, you don't eat yourself out of that reward by saying, Oh great. I did it. I feel great about it. Now let me do five more things. No, because subconsciously you've already negotiated a deal. So now you need to honor that deal.

So don't cheat yourself. Start with small things. Don't treat yourself as a master and don't treat yourself as a slave starts most are thinking about. What is the outcome that I want to get and start rewarding yourself. You would feel better about it. And you'll start getting that productivity flow in.

for example, if you want to negotiate something always negotiate on the basis of efforts, not the outcome, because don't control you. Don't control the outcome. think about it. if you go through the gym, If your goal is to lose 10 pounds, For example, don't make this, your goal, and your in your what's the category needs to be your effort.

You, you need your commitment needs to be based on the effort. So instead of committing to losing 10 pounds, you should be committing to going to the gym three times a week, because what you control. You control the effort. You don't control how much bounds you will lose your control, how much you go to the gym, right?

Jawad: what I'm noticing is that two things. So first of all, you were saying that you're fighting with yourself or you're negotiating with yourself, and this is something I like to call it the resistance. So you have this resistance in your head, that's convincing you to stop what you need to do.

And sometimes exactly. And it's there every day. And it's that moment when, ah, maybe I should watch Netflix now, but I do still have some work to do. And I like to say this quote,  your work is way too important to be left to how you feel today. And the second part, which you are mentioning the outcome.

I really love that because this is, I think this is a big problem with people. Or looking for a job or creating a company or trying to fix something with their lives. They're always looking at the outcome, but the reality is that you cannot control the outcome. And you put it perfectly, what you can control is the effort that you put into it to reach the outcome that you want.

But the outcome is never guaranteed.

Ivan: Yeah, exactly. There's so many variables and so many things here in the company, outside of you, you can't control everything that happens around the world, right? but you can control how much effort you put in.

Exactly. I think let's just start managing that resistance. Devout. I like how you were putting it. Once you start managing that resistance. And you started doing it on daily basis, then you would be ready to really go bigger. And that's where you need to start thinking about what's your vision and what your direction is?

I don't remember it telling me there was there's one experiment. Not sure if you've seen it. which is the experiment to the following. There is  it's quite old, but it's very telling, so selective blindness, you have a group of people passing around.

A basketball. They're dribbling the basketball there. They're passing the basketball around and the, and you're watching them right. Do that on on the TV. So you're watching them on the TV and then the researcher was in and says, all right, Joel, can you count how many times the blue team will pass the ball around?

And you're looking at, you're looking at the DVN you're in your County are doing exactly what your adult to do. You're looking in one, two, three, four, five, and then the researcher comes back and he asks you, so did you see the gorilla?

And people are like, what gorilla? What are you talking about? And then the researcher. Turns begged the same tape of the same people passing around the basketball. And you notice that as people are doing the basketball passing thing, there is another person in a gorilla costume that goes in front of the camera lingers there in front of the camera for a few seconds and then goes away.

But you're but your brain missed it. Your brains did not ever registered it. Yeah. Or actually your brain, did your brain registered it? You just decided to ignore that piece of data because it was not vital to what your direction was. You were counting the number of times people were passing the basketball.

that's an experiment I love because it shows you, There can always be a gorilla in your life and you can ignore things like a gorilla, but ultimately you need to be able to be true to yourself and you need to be able to accept that there might be things that are outside of your scope.

So that's why you should always focus on your efforts.

Jawad: Wow. This is really fascinating. I really love all of this. That's amazing.

What's on top of my mind right now. Is how did those techniques. Impact your own life. And your career.  Can you tell us a little bit about your own journey

Ivan: So, let's see, you want me to tell a bit about a bit about myself?

And you're not afraid people will get bored. But that's, that's very bold. I appreciate that.


I started off as an investment banker back when the great recession was in full swing. And afterwards, I guess I started a few more things. I started. I started realizing other. Investment banking is not for me. And I don't have the necessary lack of character to keep on being in investment banking.

Then I decided to make a lot of changes in my life. I came to the us. I'm originally from Bulgaria. So I came from Europe to the us. I started school again.  I got my MBA degree. And then I was a. Recent MBA graduate in San Francisco. So the only option was to start something of my own.

And that's when

Jawad: Makes sense.

Ivan: Alright, it's kind of a. It's kind of a requirement. If you are, if you don't start your own company, you're not allowed to live in San Francisco,

Jawad: That's true.

Ivan: So I started. Bismarck technologies, which, which is now called polarity.

Jawad: I remember that.

Ivan: I say a pretty great little, little project that my co-founder and I were kicking around for a while. And then we turn it into a, into a company, went through a few rounds of financing and actually the company, even though I'm no longer involved in the day-to-day operations, I'm only on the board of directors. But the company is still working, selling product. Across the world. It's pretty exciting.

Jawad: Amazing. I remember what's you're doing. There was actually a really smart. You found the really niche problem. And then you created a hardware tech, which is not very popular, I would say in San Francisco. Everybody's focused on software, but you were trying to help the bees, right?

Ivan: Right, right, right. Was a, basically a remote diagnostic and alert . product for commercial beekeepers, which I know it sounds completely unsexy for Silicon Valley. That started, but basically we found out a very. Interesting and exciting problem to solve in the beekeeping space. beekeeping industry is something that most people don't really think about everyday. And if you're like most people, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know how big it actually is. And it's pretty massive. And the last time there was any meaningful innovation in the beekeeping industry was. I think around the 1940s, when they started transporting beehives on trucks.

Jawad: They still do that.

Ivan: They still do that. Yeah. There are still And trailers of beehives criss crossing the country. So we found that we found a nice problem to solve. And make the whole beekeeping operation, more sustainable.  and this way help , the food supply, because we rely on, on bees for our food supply. Not because of honey, Kenny is kind of a

secondary after adults.

Jawad: Yeah, I think not a lot of people know that. That without bees, we will die.

Ivan: Exactly. , If the bees go, we go,  pollination is where, where the true value of beads. Is. So I did that for about five years or so. And then. I decided to step down. Hand over the operational control to my co-founder, who is still in charge and, you know, going strong. And then

I did a complete turn and I went into, into big corporate. And I've been with Walmart ever since. So I went from. Financial services. Do a startup, which I founded in my spare bedroom in San Francisco. To a fortune one company and All of those are equally exciting. I can't say that necessarily. One thing is. More exciting than the other. I find each of those initiatives pretty, pretty

great. I love to learn.

Jawad: I agree. And especially the investment banking, which I agree with you on. I'm not a big fan , of that world, but,  I think at the time you were managing somewhere in the North of $1 billion, right?

Ivan: A bit more than that, actually, so investment banking in Bulgaria.  and what we did was we were a very, very small boutique.  outfit. Which kind of found a way through.  come up with ways to gain value when everything else was was going down. And to make bets on . different Asset classes, which were not very popular at the time. Or rather what are not popular at all as an investment. Vehicle before that.

Jawad: Obviously anybody who's an investment banking is probably making a lot of money. But. Was it  an unsatisfying job to you or.

Ivan: well, you know how. People talk a lot about finding work-life balance. Yeah. will, what you get when you're in investment banking is you get work-life and you're getting no balance.

Jawad: Okay.

hour days.

Ivan: 12 hours.

You were lucky.

Jawad: Oh, wow. Okay.

Ivan: I was I was pulling 19 hour days and just. it was. Not a fun life. And the, I had a girlfriend at the time. Now my wife. And at one point it came down to, Hey, Where am I headed with this? I mean, I do make good money, but. Aye. Don't do much else. So it was kind of a tough decision for me. It was just one day. I just decided, sorry, I can't do this anymore. I, I prefer to focus on other things,

So. notice letter and left.

Jawad: left. So you're just too. Start the company. Which doesn't seem very logical now, does it?

Ivan: Well, Actually.  no. A logical at all, but.  And here's what happened. I came to the us, I thought it all right, I'll get a, I'll get an MBA. And then I'll, I'll be able to figure it out while I'm, while I'm in business school, I'll be able to figure out what I want to do. Right. The problem was I never figured out. They wanted to do. And I couldn't like pinpoint like, Oh, I want to be this. Or I want to work for XYZ company. I just didn't care those officers. So. For awhile, I was kind of a soul searching. And at one point when the hole. The problem presented itself, it kind of hit me like a freight train. I, all of a sudden I was Dreaming about bees. And I was thinking about. how can I get close to the Beekeepers, how can I understand what they're going through more so. In fact, I was Just randomly, like I would drive in California. And if you , pay attention,  To the road ahead of you. You never notice, but if you're like me and you kind of look around, you will see be,

has Every now and then on the side of the, on the side of the highway. So, so I said like, this is where I would pull over when I see a guy next to a bunch of, because I would pull over on the highway and I would run through a field so that I can talk to. Talk to a beekeeper, understand a little bit. Yeah, because it's. At one point. You fall in love with the problem. That's what it is. You, you just fall in love with the problem and you start. Spending so much time with the problem and start really, really going down and like feeling layers. And

Jawad: That's true. I feel like you live it. You embody it, you become the problem that you need to solve for yourself.

Ivan: a theoretical knowledge of what goes on. could just have a theoretical knowledge of what goes on. It's not good. You're you, you fail. So that's why you need to get your hands dirty. And you're new to start talking to people.

Jawad: Yeah, that's true. Okay. So when, when you started that. Well first, actually, let's go back a bit on how did you. Find your passion, I guess, or how did this problem turned into your passion? Was there like a moment or was it. Something you work towards.

Ivan: So my co-founder and I, We're friends since, high school and, You know, we keeping in touch regularly. and, talking to each other a lot. So one day. She was telling me about, Hey, I found this thing about bees. Did you know that the bees are dying? I'm like, Okay. Cool. I mean, Not cool for the bees. but I didn't know that. So I started looking more into it. Then I was like, Hey, this is a real problem. Let me read one more article and then  , one more article. And then, we started talking more. my friend and I, and it's on point we're like, Hey. We can probably do something about it. Do you want to give it a shot? So it was not that I found my calling. Or rather the. The problem found


Jawad: That's pretty cool. I think. I think I had the same thing actually happened to me every time. I don't think I found it, but rather than. I experienced it, or I heard about it. I researched that the bit that I'm like. Yeah, this is a problem I'm interested in solving.

Ivan: Yeah. It's a funny thing, right? Like if you are. If you're searching enough, if you're looking for something. You don't. Like to hear, to call the rolling stones. You. Don't always get what you want, but you get what you need,

Jawad: That's true.  Okay. And then,  you did that for a while then. You decided to leave the day to day and just be on the board of directors. And then I remember for a while you were kind of thinking, okay, what do I want to do , next? What's helped you. Reach the next level. .

Ivan: You remember when you and I were meeting quite often back then, So you need to, first of all, you need to remember is you need to give yourself some time too. For recharge to kind of get your bearings. And to remember who you are, because when you get sucked into the start, the board. and you start. In a working day and night, day after day at one point. There's this fatigue that settles in. So when I, when I stepped down, I needed to take some time really. Reflect and gold through a retrospective exercise on. Where was I five years ago. Where am I now? Who am I as a person? Now that I was not five years ago. Before you start rushing into something else you need to start thinking about. What kind of a person you are, what, how did you change a tree or previous experience? And I think that that kind of took awhile for me. He took, he took a couple months to really reflect back on. All the things that. I did all the things that happened, all the things that I could have done and really give. Myself.  the. Smith that they needed in order to. To be better prepared for the next chapter, because I want them, I want it to, I don't want it to rush into anything. You should just go from one thing to the next, without ever looking inward, I don't think you would have a very fulfilling and

meaningful life.

Jawad: That's very true. as you know, also,  because you're still my advisor. And mentor. I went through a similar situation. A few months ago where I decided to step down from my company and joined the board of directors. Very similar to , what you went through. And,  if you remember, me calling you and telling you, I don't know what to do. And they just kept on insisting, jawed. Take time to breathe. Like don't do anything. Just relax, enjoy life, take a vacation. Come back to yourself Then refocus on what you want to do next. And honestly, I'm gonna say. It has worked. One there's for me, I took three, four months off and the kind of like recenter them. This is what I want to do. And now I started with my podcast. hopefully soon. the Community that will create with it. So definitely sound advice.

Ivan: Absolutely. It's important. It's important to, to get back to who you truly are. but then the next one, the next one that happened as I was. Your question, how did I end up where I am now with Walmart? So No. I was in the stage where I was going to. , Getting confident with,  You know, exposing myself back to the job market and to the labor force. And I was kind of. Throwing around with the idea of starting a gain, something new. so this is a fun story. So.  2000. 18 around mid 2018. My daughter was about. Two months and a half at a , time. I was. home with her.  my wife was, she was out somewhere. And, and the baby was crying. Just. I didn't know what to do.  it was not a diaper. She was not hungry. And in the middle of all that my phone was ringing and I pick up the phone. And there is this very polite. A lady on the other side saying, Hey.  I'm with Walmart e-commerce I wanted to talk to you.

I'm like, Oh my God, that's a scam. No, thank you. Like that's a scam. Thank you. Bye. And I just, just hang up on her. I did not remember ever applying or anything like that. So. , A day pass and  and I get another phone call.  from the same woman. Again, I'm very , blunt. And she was like, Hey,  I go to a day ago and it's only like you hit a lot going on. I just wanted to start fresh. Who I am. And She told me about Walmart and everything. And I was like, Oh shoot. I thought he was a scam. Anyway. So Walmart found me.

And,  At that point again, I was looking for new opportunities and I'm not even sure what channel and how did they get to me, but it. was, it was good at it.  And basically. I was kinda thinking, all right. So on one hand I have these vague ideas of what I could potentially start. And then there is Walmart.  knocking on my door. I kind of took a deep breath and I. Then , I told him, I said, listen,  Why don't you go to Walmart? It's not, you know, it's not a. Sexy startup. but it's a huge, huge company with a lot of wood, a lot of potential, A lot of things to do so. I decided to really give myself the chance to. You know, go and join such a. Incredible organization because the scale is unbelievable.  when you're a fortune. One company in your, and you're doing more than $500 billion. Of revenue in a year. It's absolutely incredible. The scale. from

Jawad: the difference between a startup and that is worlds apart,

Ivan: you'd be surprised, actually, not so much. I'll get to that. But this one to say, why I decided to do that, my decision process was all right. I have any particular idea about starting something, which is.

Which I'm completely crazy about. And I prefer to go join Walmart, acquire new skills play around with the latest available technology, understand something about a domain, which I didn't talk about, but supply chain right now, I'm in the e-commerce supply chain product team. So as a product manager, we think supply chain, I am learning so much about Basically how the world works these days.

So I'm not saying that I'll never start anything new. I'm just saying that recalibrating your skills and acquiring new skills elsewhere before you start something of your own is also a good way to go about things.

Jawad: So you're a product manager at Walmart, which is this behemoth. is it still one of the biggest employers in in the U S or is it the biggest employer?

Ivan: Biggest private employer in the U S

the only terror is more people is the federal government. yeah. And you get, I think Walmart has just about 2 million employees in the U S

Jawad: amazing. Amazing. And you mentioned that it acts like a startup, which is a very interesting point because a lot of companies.

One to achieve that's like their goal. Like how do I move and scale like a startup, but maintain my behemoths status.

Ivan: So the great thing about Walmart is that it is been around for a while and it's been, it's such a prominent position within the us retail industry and the economy, so that it says.

A lot of the operations figure it out. And that's where a lot of startups are shoving issues, right? They don't always have all the big company logistics figured out as they're growing. So the growing pains that startups have are not there for Walmart. and when you take that out of the equation, you're left with a bunch of talented people.

Who are, governed by this invisible structure of rules, which gives them the stability to experiment. And you basically take the best out of the big company culture and you take the best out of the startup culture and you put those things together and it really things work well.

So every year I actually bitch same way. I would bitch investors. Like when I was with my own company, the same way I will do investor pitches, I would with something I would pitch for funding for next year, for the things that I'm doing, I would compete with with other things, for the.

For the same dollars I would do all of the same things to stay ahead. So I would work as an entrepreneur or other intrepreneur within the boundaries of the bigger organization. Wow.

Jawad: That's actually amazing. I did not talk to anybody who works in such an organization before, but do you think that a lot of the companies

the big ones actually function like that? Or is this kind of

Ivan: Walmarts? no I don't think it's. Unique or strictly a Walmart thing? I think a lot of the, a lot of the big companies are learning that, Hey,  we need to change. So there has been a transformation across corporate America for the past decade or so, where a lot of the big companies are trying to adopt New policies, new ways of working. Walmart just probably started a little bit earlier. and Walmart, I think the one unique thing to Walmart, which I couldn't be more happier with actually is beyond the structure or an entrepreneurial mindset is. I was really surprised that this was the case.

Honestly, I was very skeptical entering into this role because what you think when you hear Walmart, is this behemoths, right? You don't really expect. anything but a rigid corporate structure from the 1970s? Yeah.

Jawad: that's what I told you on the call when we use first told me, but no bureaucracy and it's going to be slow and you're going to hate your

Ivan: life so on the country.

But I think what Walmart really does best is Walmart manages to embrace you and. Even though there are 2.5 million people working for Walmart globally. You have this sense of belonging and they really managed to get you to feel like you're part of a family. I think that's the one thing about Walmart, which to me stands out complete.

Jawad: Thank you very much. I really appreciate all of this, but I like to leave my audience with an actionable question. I think I have a feeling what questionnaire you're going to ask, but I'm going to leave it to you.

What question do you want to ask them something that they can act on?

Ivan: and should it be something more specific than what they're having for breakfast tomorrow? Right.

Jawad: Up to you, but they have to act on it. But I, I felt that you had been asked that

Ivan: question.

No, actually. So if you want to really be able to achieve anything in your life, you need to have a vision. And you need to be able to pursue this vision and you need to be able to always think about what's meaningful versus what's expedient, right? Then you always need to be choosing the meaningful things versus the expediency so that you can pursue your vision more accurately.

but in order to get on this. The duration first, you need to have some real talk with yourself and you need to be honest about where you want to go. So my question is, can you please go back to your drawing board, your personal drawing board. And can you please describe to yourself?

Completely honestly, you are, it's only you and yourself. There's no one there completely, honestly. What is the best possible future that you see for yourself? What is the best possible future that you are willing to work for? They're willing to sacrifice things for What is your dope scenario look like, and you should speak the truth to yourself.

You should not deceive yourself. You should be really honest about what is your best possible future. And. I'm asking everyone to do that, because this is really the first step. This is where your North star appears and you know how important that is because once you know where you need to get, Nope.

Kind of gives meaning to why you are doing the things you're doing every day. Yeah. Joanne, I'm not sure I've told you that, but one of my favorite. Quotes of all time is from Friedrich Nietzsche, the German philosopher, who said that a man who knows the why can bear an entire world of how meaning, if you know what your personal meaning.

You will find a way how to get there. And that's why this question is important. What is the best possible future?

Jawad: Amazing. Thank you very much. I think everybody's going to love this episode and they know for sure there's a lot of benefits coming out of it. A lot of secrets too. I did not see it going this way, but thank you everyone again.

And I hope everyone enjoys this. Thank you.

Ivan: Pleasure. Was my joy always happy to do that.